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Cheriour
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11 posters
Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
Rada- Retired
- Number of posts : 80
Registration date : 2008-07-26
- Post n°101
Re: Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
Umm... Jill that came from the quote of the rulebook that you included in your previous post.
cenobyte- Admin
- Number of posts : 860
Location : She is overfond of books, and it hath addled her brain.
Registration date : 2008-06-24
- Post n°102
Re: Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
Yeah, and my point is that I don't think that's the *only* way to play an Irredeemable character.
cenobyte- Admin
- Number of posts : 860
Location : She is overfond of books, and it hath addled her brain.
Registration date : 2008-06-24
- Post n°103
Re: Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
I think this settles the discussion once and for all:
[URL="http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=301"]
[/URL]
[URL="http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=301"]
[/URL]
Keth- Retired
- Number of posts : 207
Location : Player: Daniel Smith
Registration date : 2008-07-03
- Post n°104
Re: Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
I really like that picture. It made my day
cenobyte- Admin
- Number of posts : 860
Location : She is overfond of books, and it hath addled her brain.
Registration date : 2008-06-24
- Post n°105
Re: Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
Also, this:
(Note: Guess who's found a new favourite online comic?)
(Note: Guess who's found a new favourite online comic?)
cenobyte- Admin
- Number of posts : 860
Location : She is overfond of books, and it hath addled her brain.
Registration date : 2008-06-24
- Post n°106
Re: Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
Morphine- Number of posts : 8
Location : Edmonton
Registration date : 2008-12-01
- Post n°107
Re: Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
To give an example of a different sort of irredeemable character:
In the game I ran, the Black Rook loved the Black King more than anything in the world. She did not care about anyone else, or anything else. She would have done anything to keep him safe. Her one-mindedness made her irredeemable, but it did not make her loveless or completely uncontrolled.
In the game I ran, the Black Rook loved the Black King more than anything in the world. She did not care about anyone else, or anything else. She would have done anything to keep him safe. Her one-mindedness made her irredeemable, but it did not make her loveless or completely uncontrolled.
Rebecca O'Malley- Retired
- Number of posts : 86
Registration date : 2008-06-25
- Post n°108
Re: Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
I remember her. She nearly killed me once or twice.
Keth- Retired
- Number of posts : 207
Location : Player: Daniel Smith
Registration date : 2008-07-03
- Post n°109
Re: Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
Sounds like a very interesting character. Would have been interesting to see how that worked out. Sounds like a perfect rook though. Going to any lengths to do what the king orders without any real moral consequence... yeah that would be fun .
Guest- Guest
- Post n°110
Re: Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
Even if we ignore that the rulebook says Irredeemable characters relish terrible acts (and anything that doesn't hurt people isn't terrible, just culturally unaccepted) there's all the matter of controlled vs uncontrolled Irredeemable.
Unless I'm mistaken regarding the rules for it, as an Irredeemable character you have to spend points and then upkeep it to prevent yourself from killing everything you see. Those rules are telling me that when an Irredeemable character sees a kitten it takes a supreme act of will not to bite that kitten's head off. That's not just hardened and dead to the world, that's actively malicious. It comes as close to a word as poorly agreed upon as "evil" as anything ever will.
And if virtues and sins represent good and evil respectively and only a virtuous character can be innocent then Innocent isn't just being sensitive to others and unable to cause harm, it's also tied up with good.
I get the thing about how it's great to have a system governing how calloused you are totally divorced from good and evil, but I don't think that's what we have. We seem to have a system that governs how calloused you are that becomes a system of good and evil at its poles.
Unless I'm mistaken regarding the rules for it, as an Irredeemable character you have to spend points and then upkeep it to prevent yourself from killing everything you see. Those rules are telling me that when an Irredeemable character sees a kitten it takes a supreme act of will not to bite that kitten's head off. That's not just hardened and dead to the world, that's actively malicious. It comes as close to a word as poorly agreed upon as "evil" as anything ever will.
And if virtues and sins represent good and evil respectively and only a virtuous character can be innocent then Innocent isn't just being sensitive to others and unable to cause harm, it's also tied up with good.
I get the thing about how it's great to have a system governing how calloused you are totally divorced from good and evil, but I don't think that's what we have. We seem to have a system that governs how calloused you are that becomes a system of good and evil at its poles.
Eliel- Number of posts : 198
Registration date : 2009-01-16
- Post n°111
Re: Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
I would think that the mechanics for hardcore & irredeemable probably don't exist in the real world. They represent "supernaturally" immoral characters. Real people who commit horrible heinous acts don't feel emotional pain when performing good acts. In fact most people who have committed the most vile acts in history view themselves as good people doing what they have to in order to make the world a better place. Just because someone commits genocide doesn't mean it causes them heartache to save a kitten from a tree. I think in the KC system however, supernatural beings are more effected by their morality. (at least that is part of how I am trying to wrap my brain around this system)
cenobyte- Admin
- Number of posts : 860
Location : She is overfond of books, and it hath addled her brain.
Registration date : 2008-06-24
- Post n°112
Re: Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
Thank you, Dave.
I agree with that last statement.
Er.
Second-last statement.
I agree with that last statement.
Er.
Second-last statement.
Guest- Guest
- Post n°113
Re: Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
But that brings it back to being wholly a scale of how good or evil you are.
cenobyte- Admin
- Number of posts : 860
Location : She is overfond of books, and it hath addled her brain.
Registration date : 2008-06-24
- Post n°114
Re: Embodiment, Conviction, and Morality
I don't want to be a *complete* asshole here...maybe just a *partial* asshole...so please, forgive me for what I am about to say.
I really think we've beaten this mammal well past its prime.
If you don't like the Morality system, I think that's unfortunate, but for the most part, it accomplishes what it sets out to do: it provides one of the means by which you accumulate Trauma.
At this point, I don't think it's really that important if it's a scale of how good or evil you are, or how desensitised you are to violence, or how willing you are to do Bad Things. I don't think it's important at this stage in the discussion if Morality should be called Serendipity or Alice or anything else.
There comes a time when feedback and suggestions descend into bickering, and that's what I feel this discussion has become. I don't feel that there is anything new being offered, nor do I feel that any further discussion will 'solve' anything. It seems like at this point, there is no way to reach a consensus.
In fact, at this point, I don't even know what, if anything, is being suggested.
I think all of you have made good points, and have given me quite a lot to think about in terms of what Morality means as it relates to KC. As a game mechanic, I think it does what it sets out to do, and I think it does it fairly simply.
So, thank you for entertaining this discussion. I'm going to close the topic, although if you would like to forward me your concrete and concise feedback/suggestions about Morality, please do so via email.
I really think we've beaten this mammal well past its prime.
If you don't like the Morality system, I think that's unfortunate, but for the most part, it accomplishes what it sets out to do: it provides one of the means by which you accumulate Trauma.
At this point, I don't think it's really that important if it's a scale of how good or evil you are, or how desensitised you are to violence, or how willing you are to do Bad Things. I don't think it's important at this stage in the discussion if Morality should be called Serendipity or Alice or anything else.
There comes a time when feedback and suggestions descend into bickering, and that's what I feel this discussion has become. I don't feel that there is anything new being offered, nor do I feel that any further discussion will 'solve' anything. It seems like at this point, there is no way to reach a consensus.
In fact, at this point, I don't even know what, if anything, is being suggested.
I think all of you have made good points, and have given me quite a lot to think about in terms of what Morality means as it relates to KC. As a game mechanic, I think it does what it sets out to do, and I think it does it fairly simply.
So, thank you for entertaining this discussion. I'm going to close the topic, although if you would like to forward me your concrete and concise feedback/suggestions about Morality, please do so via email.
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Tue 3 Aug 2010 - 11:47 by cenobyte
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» "Map" of the Fallen
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