Providence

Providence is a LARP game using Trent Yacuk's Kingdom Come system. It is a game of Fallen Angels and their struggle to survive against the forces of Heaven and Hell and some things in between.

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    Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

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    cenobyte
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    Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by cenobyte on Tue 3 Feb 2009 - 0:32

    Kingdom Come - Trent Yacuk wrote:Hunt
    Profession: Investigator
    Difficulty: Opposed
    Bonus Marks: Thugs (+1)
    Re-Rolls: Lackey, Wealth
    You can use this action to find and confront another character or group between games. Usually for a fight, you may also use this to force a meeting for any reason. If there are multiple hunts, then the Hunt with the most Marks achieved by any one individual gets to go first. The Storyguide and player should determine whether the original hunter would still be around when future hunters arrives.
    A character with Inquisition can perform a special Hunt. They cannot gain Aid or be part of a Group in order to do this. First, they get to know the base Defense of their prey (not taking into account a Protect action). They get one re-roll per rank of Inquisition used on the Opposed challenge. Finally, their Hunt, if successful, will always allow their confrontation to be first. If there are multiple Inquisitions used, then the player who got the most Marks gets to go first.
    Note that a character who uses Inquisition may gain a Traumatic wound for it .

    Abstract Combat:
    Kingdom Come - Trent Yacuk wrote:If one character successfully hunts and indicates that combat will occur, then the Storyguide can just have it so that the Hunt action inflicts a number of wounds on both characters using the following formula:

    • All Offensive and Dramatic Maneuvers possessed by each character inflict one wound on their opponent.


    • All Defensive Maneuvers possessed by each character removes one of these wounds.


    • One additional wound is inflicted on the target per Mark gained over the Defense number.
    ....Every Thugs resource used gives one side 3 thugs in the fight, inflicting damage with the following method: the Storyguide rolls a d6 for every Thug involved. On a 1-3, the thugs are defeated without inflicting any damage. On 4-6, the thugs inflict one wound. Additionally, the Storyguide continues to roll to see if they are defeated or if they inflict more wounds (ed. note: So on on a 4-6, the dice effectively 'open end', and I get to keep rolling for more damage). If your Warfare is higher than your opponent's, you get a +1 to the thugs roll. If it is lower, you will have a -1 to the roll.
    Stats for Thugs:
    Kingdom Come - Trent Yacuk wrote:Each Thugs Resource represents 3 'thugs' who possess 3 Body Archetypes (4 Warfare, 3 Dynamic & Reactive Body, 3 Offensive Maneuvers, 1 Defensive Maneuver). Each Lackey assigned alongside Thugs represents an extra named person with +1 to the above stats.

    I'm not real keen on characters dieing during downtime. If you decide your character *should* die, that's one thing, but usually, one of three things will happen - you'll receive a Traumatic Wound; you'll gain the Vice: Adversary; or you will die the Hollow Death. Anything that may happen to you if you are incapacitated can happen (you can get rolled for beer money, essentially).


    Last edited by cenobyte on Tue 3 Feb 2009 - 0:36; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : As the ship rocked gently back and forth, I noticed the smell was stronger here in the Captain's cabin. Taking a bottle of brandy with me, I set out to find where everyone else on board was hiding.)
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    Corral

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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by Corral on Tue 3 Feb 2009 - 17:12

    "I'm not real keen on characters dieing during downtime."

    Does that include side scenes? Because I can understand why we shouldn't just die without ever having had a chance to flee or use [dirty] tactics, but it seems to me that in general, if we should die, then we should die. Besides, that encourages people to do confrontations during downtime, and that just isn't cool. I think you should probably need a side scene in order to do combat, and IMO if it's a side scene death should be OK. (Just my opinion, though).
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by cenobyte on Tue 3 Feb 2009 - 17:27

    The guideline I've always used in general is that if there is a side scene that's played out, then whatever happens during that scene is fair game.

    In the book, the recommendation (with which I agree wholeheartedly, and have used in other games) is to leave the final decision of what actually happens to a character up to the player. If the player is fine with their character dying, that's fine. However, it's generally considered kind of hinky to just inform a player that as a result of downtime actions, their character is dead. I don't do that kind of thing because I think it's incredibly bad form, and more than just a little disrespectful.

    However, for combat itself, these mechanics were created so that combat *can* happen during downtime as a result of Endeavours. The understanding is that it's always better to have a scene with the players present, however, that's not always possible (in fact, I'd say it's *rarely* possible). These mechanics were designed as a 'quick and dirty' way to adjudicate downtime combat, and were never intended to be a 'realistic substitute' for actually playing out combat.

    So. To recap: if downtime combat occurs (as a result of a Hunt or Persecute or Investigate action, for instance), these mechanics may be used. However, I may instead decide to ask people to not play their characters or do any game scenes until we have a chance to have a scene in which combat is played out.

    The bottom line is that your character will *never* be killed without your permission. I will usually consult you on things like Hollow Death, receiving Trauma, and taking the Vice: Adversary. In fact, I can't see a time when I would just call you up and say "oh, Bee-tee-doubleyou, your character takes a Severe Trauma as a result of a downtime action."

    But. That being said. This month, I will be handling at least part of the Hunt using the abstract combat rules. Depending on the outcome of the Hunt, of course.

    And, to be clear, if you're actually engaged in a scene where you're playing things out, yes, your character can die. In previous games I've helped run, there was a 'house rule' that characters would not die unless one of the Storyguides were present at the scene.
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    Eliel

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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by Eliel on Tue 3 Feb 2009 - 18:10

    Oliver was a slightly different scenario because the player had already decided to switch characters but his death makes a good example of how I think "downtime" death should work.

    The character still died but by bringing the actual death scene to the game, it provided an opportunity to have some excellent roleplaying at the game itself. The power-gamer in me really likes achieving things while no one is watching however the actor in me interested in the LARP as an art form thinks that as much action as possible should always happen "on screen".


    Last edited by Eliel on Tue 3 Feb 2009 - 18:11; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : This has thread has sparked another question I would like to ask but it is off topic so I'm switching threads.)
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by cenobyte on Wed 4 Feb 2009 - 0:17

    Ah.

    To be clear, "Warfare" is not a typo in that example. Your "Warfare" is your Dynamic Body stat plus any modifiers (from Preeminences, Techniques, etc.).
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    Jordan
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by Jordan on Wed 4 Feb 2009 - 14:00

    I see the downtime combat working reasonably well for a one-on-one or small combat (maybe up to four combatants) but this seems to fall apart for large-scale fights like we are planning. Im curious as to how the battle will be handled with potentially throwing 10 or more (I just picked a number) offensive manoeuvres around. Are these marks pooled then averaged by the numbers on each side of the fray? Are defensive manoeuvres retained personally or would they be remove marks from the 'offensive' pool?

    Can you please clarify Thugs? Im not clear how each of three Thugs rolls a d6 but if one of the Thugs rolls a 1-3 all are defeated. Also, I interpret the 4-6 in your ed. note to not open end, but to roll until one side is done; either until all your thugs are gone or the opponent is defeated (your call though, just the way I read the rules). If one or two Thugs fall in the fight, is the entire resource gone from the character (either permanently for temporary Thugs or for one month for permanent Thugs) or do all three have to roll poorly to lose the resource? Do their offensive manoeuvres contribute to those of the characters involved in the fight?

    On a side note, it seems this system does not address characters designed with mondo-prowesss but no manoeuvres (statistically speaking one character may be way tougher than another character, but the one with manoeuvres will win in the downtime combat despite the other routinely kicking butt in game-time). Perhaps there is a way to factor the Warfare rating into the abstract combat framework?

    What has to happen (mechanically) for a character to die the true death as opposed to the hallow death? Do they have to be affected by Hallow?
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by cenobyte on Wed 4 Feb 2009 - 14:39

    I would like to ask Johnathan to address some of your questions, because he can explain it much better than I can. In terms that make sense, I should think.

    I'll address what I can, though:
    Jordan wrote:Are these marks pooled then averaged by the
    numbers on each side of the fray? Are defensive manoeuvres retained
    personally or would they be remove marks from the 'offensive' pool?

    I think they're just pooled, period.
    So there will be a pool of OMs and DrMs, and a pool of DMs. Subtract DMs from OMs and DrMs: ((OM pool total + DrM pool total)-(DM pool total)).
    **NOTE** THIS REQUIRES YOU TO TELL ME WHAT YOU HAVE FOR OFFENSIVE MANEUVERS, DEFENSIVE MANEUVERS, and DRAMATIC MANEUVERS. PLEASE INCLUDE THIS INFORMATION IF YOU ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE GROUP HUNT

    I see how this could cause confusion - you'll want to know which characters actually take damage in the fight. Hm.

    Well, I could just as easily assign combatants on a one-to-one basis (ie. if there are 10 attackers and 6 hunters, I would assign one attacker to each hunter first, then assign more attackers to the hunters with the most OMs+DrMs.

    Jordan wrote:Can you please clarify Thugs? Im not clear how
    each of three Thugs rolls a d6 but if one of the Thugs rolls a 1-3 all
    are defeated.

    Each 'dot' of Resources:Thugs you have translates to three 'guys' (or gals, I suppose). I roll a d6 for each of your thugs. On a roll of 1-3 *for each thug*, that thug is defeated. On a roll of 4-5 *for each thug*, that thug is successful. I am separating "Thugs" (Big-Tee Thugs) as a Resource from "thugs" (small-tee thugs) as 'each individual unnamed character'.
    1. Thug one - rolls a 5. Successful. Rolls again. Gets a 3. Is Defeated.
    2. Thug two - rolls a 1. Is defeated.
    3. Thug three - rolls a 4. Successful. Rolls again - 6. Successful. Rolls 6 - Successful. Rolls a 2. Is defeated.

    Jordan wrote:If one or two Thugs fall in the fight, is the
    entire resource gone from the character (either permanently for
    temporary Thugs or for one month for permanent Thugs) or do all three
    have to roll poorly to lose the resource? Do their offensive manoeuvres
    contribute to those of the characters involved in the fight?

    Temporary Resources may be lost.
    Permanent Resources will not be.
    I haven't seen anything that says that if you fail on your roll, you automatically lose the Resource. Unless I completely missed something.

    Yes, any OMs that your Thugs have are taken into consideration for Abstract Combat.
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by cenobyte on Wed 4 Feb 2009 - 14:44

    Jordan wrote:What has to happen (mechanically) for a
    character to die the true death as opposed to the hallow death? Do they
    have to be affected by Hallow?

    In downtime, a character has to agree to the True Death.
    In regular play, when a character has taken a Mortal Wound, they are essentially incapacitated. If you inflict another Wound, the character dies. Usually, they will die the Hollow Death, however:

    Kingdom Come - Trent Yacuk wrote:In game mechanics, you are allowed to make a Dynamic Soul challenge against the Reactive Soul of the target when you inflict the last Mortal Wound upon a Fallen (one that isnt ignored by a Technique or other effect). If you are successful in that challenge, the victim dies the True Death.
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    Molior

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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by Molior on Wed 4 Feb 2009 - 16:48

    Waaaaaaaaait a second.

    cenobyte wrote:Yes, any OMs that your Thugs have are taken into consideration for Abstract Combat.

    I was under the impression that your Thugs' OMs were NOT taken into consideration for Abstract Combat. Instead, all they got was that roll with their 4 Warfare. "Named" characters were the only ones who got to add up their OMs, DrMs and DMs.

    I'm also unclear on how many Wounds Thugs have now. A Reactive of 3 would lead me to believe that they have 1 Surface, 2 Severe.

    Also: is it possible for Thugs to have a second Advantage or Disadvantage in Abstract Combat?


    Last edited by Molior on Wed 4 Feb 2009 - 16:51; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Extra explain-ifying)
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by cenobyte on Wed 4 Feb 2009 - 17:15

    Hrm.

    From the example given above, I don't see anything that says Thugs' OMs cannot be taken into consideration. I'll continue to forage for more information on this. It could be that I am trying to mix two things into one that were intended to be separate for a reason - ie. dramatic combat + Thugs versus Abstract combat + Thugs.

    For Abstract combat, wound levels don't matter. Which is to say, your 'wound levels' are determined based on your Defensive Maneuvers. Thugs are defeated by a roll of 1-3 (for each thug). For dramatic combat (Thugs being used at a game (for which you should try to have players?), I would agree that it seems thugs (note: small-tee thugs) indeed have 1 surface and 2 severe wounds.

    It's my understanding that Abstract combat doesn't take into account Advantages or Disadvantages at all.
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    Molior

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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by Molior on Wed 4 Feb 2009 - 17:22

    You're absolutely right about thug Wound levels not mattering in Abstract Combat. My bad. Wounds would only matter for the Devil (if we were interested in doing THAT in downtime, which I am certainly not). However, do the Thugs soak up only 1 of our OM/DrM pool each with their 1 DM per? Or do Demons get more DMs or something?

    My basic problem with this is that it seems that against Thugs/Demons our OM/DrM pool is essentially meaningless. They get a roll regardless, and we'll have enough OM/DrMs between the lot of us that we'll bowl them over even if we DO need to do their total DM in damage.


    cenobyte wrote:
    Abstract Combat:
    Kingdom Come - Trent Yacuk wrote:....Every Thugs resource used gives one side 3 thugs in the fight, inflicting damage with the following method: the Storyguide rolls a d6 for every Thug involved. On a 1-3, the thugs are defeated without inflicting any damage. On 4-6, the thugs inflict one wound. Additionally, the Storyguide continues to roll to see if they are defeated or if they inflict more wounds (ed. note: So on on a 4-6, the dice effectively 'open end', and I get to keep rolling for more damage). If your Warfare is higher than your opponent's, you get a +1 to the thugs roll. If it is lower, you will have a -1 to the roll.

    So, Thugs get an Advantage if their Warfare is higher, a Disadvantage if their Warfare is lower. Can they get 2 of either, like we can?
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    Arc
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by Arc on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 0:04

    Here is my current understanding of the Dramatic Downtime Combat Rules. For ease of explanation I have broken this into steps and included a running example at each phase.



    For clarification as Jill mentioned above.
    The stats for thugs (Warfare 4, 3 Reactive Body, 3 Defensive Body, 3 Offensive Maneuvers, 1 Defensive Maneuver) as given by Trent. This gives Thugs formidable stats for humans and means they are EXCEPTIONALLY well trained. These are the stats one would use if you were playing out the combat with full combat rules. It does not stand to my knowledge that you would add either the Offensive Maneuvers or health levels for Thugs to the group totals in a Dramatic Combat.

    The role that Thugs play in dramatic combat is as a "variable" in the scene. Since the outcome of the battle is decided in one fell swoop they don't get to consider their stats.

    My understanding for downtime combat is this:

    Step 1: Declaration of hunt/group hunt




    Rada, Jade, and Oliver comprise the members of Team Fallen. They declare their Hunt action by assigning Secular Power, Effort and Resources to Hunt Team Devil. Stats declared for Team Fallen and assigned Resources is as follows:



    Rada: Warfare 5, Wounds 4, Offensive Maneuvers (including those granted by Techniques) 3, Defensive Maneuvers 1.

    Jade: War 4, Wounds 4, Off Man 5, Def Man 3

    Oliver: War 3, Wounds 3, Off Man 3, Def Man 4

    Total Thugs Resource assigned: 6



    Team Devil suspects this is coming and has made a Hide action.

    Devil: 8 Warfare, 20 Wounds, Off Man 3, Def Man 5

    It has assigned half of its available Thugs resource for a total of 10, 5 of which are Temporary.

    Step 2: Determination of total number of success of hunters, and total number of success for defenders for the declared actions.




    Team Fallen: 8

    Team Devil: 4

    Step 3: Determine number of health levels for both sides. DM's added to each.




    Team Fallen: 5+4+3 for wounds, 1+3+4 for Def Man, Total: 20

    Team Devil: 20 for wounds, 5 for Def Man, Total: 25

    Note that Thugs do not add to wound levels and will not add for Offensive wounds.

    Step 4: The starting damage for the "combat" is Hunter successes - Defender successes in wounds done to the defender.




    Team Fallen Team Devil = 8-4 = 4 Wounds done to Team Devil.

    Step 5: Thug Damage. Roll three dice per level of Thugs resource, and one die per Lackey as bonus Offensive Maneuvers to be used for the appropriate side employing these resources. Successes continue to be rolled until no dice remain. Thugs damage success chances are modified by the opposing Warfare of the other team against the Thug Warfare value of 4. I would use the Highest on each team but this is up to the Storyteller. This ends in the Thugs being used up since a failure to damage results in the Thugs death/being driven off from the combat.




    Team Fallen Thugs: will succeed on Damage on a roll of 6 only. Devil Warfare 8 gives it a potent advantage against the Thugs. Team Fallen thugs are imbued with luck and roll a total of 18 dice (6 Thugs x 3 dice), re-rolling successes for a final total of 5 successes.



    Team Devil Thugs: will succeed on Damage on a roll of 5-6. Team Fallen Warfare is one higher giving it an advantage. Team Devil Thugs roll a total number of successes of 10 on 30 dice.



    Add successes to Offensive Maneuvers of the appropriate team.

    Step 6: apply Off Man as damage to defenders, apply Defender Off Man's to attackers.




    Team Fallen: 12 Off Man + 5 Off Man from Thugs = 17 Wounds

    Team Devil: 3 Off Man + 10 Off Man from Thugs = 13 Wounds

    Team Fallen now has taken 13 / 20 Wounds.


    Team Devil now has taken a total of 21 / 25 Wounds (17 + 4 from step 4)

    Step 7: Determine Success


    If defender is at 0 of fewer wounds the hunt culminates in a success as intended by the attackers.

    If the attacker is reduced to 0 or fewer wounds they are defeated.
    If both are reduced to 0 or fewer wounds both are defeated.




    This Hunt is a draw. Neither side wins before one or the other escapes or is driven off. Team Fallen used no Temporary Thugs so they can try the same action next month with the same stats. Team Devil used 5 Temporary Thugs and loses those until it can regain them through added downtime actions, but gets to keep the 5 Permanent Thugs for use next month.



    Who, if anyone, suffers the Hollow Death is up to ST discretion.

    In this scenario, I'm assuming the Devil is the only non-Resource opponent and the demons count as levels of Thugs resource for him.



    The cinematic downtime system for dealing with thugs and whatnot as I see it compensates for the various techniques, wound level modifiers and other complications that happen in a played out battle. It is significantly shorter than playing out a fight if neither side is all that interested in doing so. Also, I could whip up a spreadsheet that essentially did all the work for the ST outside of punching in a few numbers. I like spreadsheets, they make numbers fast.




    I hope this helps everyone.
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    Keth
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by Keth on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 0:50

    cenobyte wrote:
    **NOTE** THIS REQUIRES YOU TO TELL ME WHAT YOU HAVE FOR OFFENSIVE MANEUVERS, DEFENSIVE MANEUVERS, and DRAMATIC MANEUVERS. PLEASE INCLUDE THIS INFORMATION IF YOU ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE GROUP HUNT

    *sigh* noted.. *files the darn thing yet again..*

    cenobyte wrote:
    If your Warfare is higher than your opponent's, you get a +1 to the thugs roll. If it is lower, you will have a -1 to the roll.
    molior wrote:
    So, Thugs get an Advantage if their Warfare is higher, a Disadvantage if their Warfare is lower. Can they get 2 of either, like we can?

    I think that means that if YOUR warfare is higher, your thugs get an advantage on the roll. Maybe?

    And Arc.. i like it.
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by cenobyte on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 9:53

    Mark: No. It's just a higher/lower thing. And I'm not sure if it is supposed to apply to thugs or just to you and to your opponent. However, I'd be willing to consider Dan's suggestion as also applying.

    But there is no Potent (+2) Advantage. Of this I am positive.
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by Keth on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 12:05

    It wasnt so much of a suggestion, just the way my brain happened to process the information. *shrug*
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    Jordan
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by Jordan on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 13:33

    Thanks for the clarification...very helpful to have the running example. My only question relates to the wounds done by the attackers based on their marks over the defense of Team Devil (determined in Step 2). Am I correct in presuming these marks are the pooled successes of the attackers divided by the number of attackers (per standard 'group action' resolution)? So for the above example, the 8 attacker marks come from 24 marks gained by the group divided by the 3 participants? And the 4 relates to the defense of the Devil.
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    Keth
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by Keth on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 13:40

    hmm a random-ish question about the distribution of wounds in a group hunt like that. Are they divided equally by all members of the hunt? or divided at storyguide discretion among the participants?


    Last edited by Keth on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 13:44; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : needs to learn* how to spell..)
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by Molior on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 15:50

    I very much like your example of the Abstract Combat rules, John. That is how I understand it as well, but that doesn't seem to completely mesh with what Jill is saying. There is not only the problem you noted, that it's unclear what Warfare thugs will go against (although I seem to recall Jill saying that it would be as in Fray combats, so each Fallen would fight 4 thugs (though who gets the extras? Can the guy with the highest Warfare volunteer?)), but also that apparently the Devil CAN'T get 2 Advantages over the thugs he's fighting.

    A small complaint is that if we go with Team Devil vs Team Fallen, we don't actually get to do intelligent tactical things, because it's all decided by our Wounds, OMs, DrMs, DMs, Hunt Marks and thug rolling luck. I would very much like to table top at least the attack on the Devil, though I see the difficulty making that happen.
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by cenobyte on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 17:55

    Mark: That is the issue with abstract combat. It's abstract and not dramatic so you don't get to do cool things.
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by Arc on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 18:09

    Forum ate my detailed post but I'll do a quick redo without reasoning or supporting info.

    Rules do not exclude the potent advantage in the compared challenge explicitly so I chose to include them.

    Compared warfare I exampled at the highest present to make it more effective to have someone there who can actually fight. I've also suggested an averaging of Warfare to Jill but I think that is more work than it is worth. Thugs don't really exist except to be beaten it doesn't really matter who does it.

    Wounds indicating who takes what I've purposely left out since that is supposed to be covered by things like risk generated and the various dramatic effects available to players and ST.
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    Arc
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by Arc on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 18:11

    And, I believe the successes are pooled, if not for forcing the scene (which I'm unclear on) but certainly appears to be pooled in the case of damage.

    As a reminder, Hunt only forces an interaction, it doesn't have to be combat. The dramatic combat system is for those less concerned with the physics of the game and more with "what would be fair but dramatically appropriate to happen". That is why things like the Pure techniques are left out except for maybe flavour of the combat and the million and one other things which influence die rolls.
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by cenobyte on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 18:14

    Johnathan: Good point. Hunts and Investigates and Persecutes and those sorts of things *can* end in combat, but they don't have to.

    I was suggesting using this as a way for me to test drive the abstract combat system. Also, because while it would be *wonderful* to do a downtime scene that is a massive combat, I don't have the resources to do it. So for at least part of it, I will use the abstract combat system.
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by cenobyte on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 23:06

    The thing I'm not seeing anywhere in the source material is how to determine Wounds. I don't think that's taken into account. I think it's supposed to be as simple as OM+DrM for Team Fallen versus DM for Team Demon.

    The way I understand it is that we don't actually calculate wounds. It's simply OM+DrM (which do damage) versus DM (which remove damage).

    Thugs as well. Your Thugs, then, essentially, only have one "wound" they can take before they drop like bugs.

    That's how I read things. Because Abstract combat isn't meant to be rich and robust. It's meant to be quick and dirty and a way to determine who *wins* a fight, not who lives or dies. For named characters.
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by Arc on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 23:17

    I don't understand most of what you just said Wink

    Thugs have no wounds, their mechanic is to die when their damage capacity runs out.

    There is nothing about wounds so I defaulted to totals given by the players stats. If dramatic combat is supposed to assume only a win or loss then each side might only have one wound plus Def Man, but that would mean anyone without one Defensive maneouver would automatically be killed upon the calculation of the hunt success role.
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    Re: Hunt Endeavour and Abstract Combat

    Post by cenobyte on Thu 5 Feb 2009 - 23:19

    Yeah, I know. But that's what it seems to be saying.

    Hrm.

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