Providence

Providence is a LARP game using Trent Yacuk's Kingdom Come system. It is a game of Fallen Angels and their struggle to survive against the forces of Heaven and Hell and some things in between.

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    Psych vs Emo Trauma

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    Corral

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    Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by Corral on Wed 18 Feb 2009 - 18:15

    OK, so when the game encourages the storyteller to ask the players which type of trauma they want to take, is that because we're supposed to meta-game, or because it's supposed to be up to the player which type their character would perceive the difficulty in?

    I mean, I've been trying all along to decide which type seems most justified, but maybe I'm *supposed* to be sitting there going, "Well if I take it in Emotional, I'll have a breakdown, so I should take it in Psychological." The game certainly seems to encourage that, or why else ask the *player*, who knows how much trauma of each type they have, and so forth?
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by cenobyte on Wed 18 Feb 2009 - 20:05

    The easy answer is...
    ...

    ...okay, there really is no easy answer.

    This is my take on it: the reason it's "up to you" to choose which area you wish to take Trauma in (in some instances) is twofold: one, to allow you to allocate Trauma more evenly across your available wound categories; and two, to allow you the player to choose which area you feel your character would perceive the difficulty in.

    Also, there *are* situations where you *don't* get to choose.

    So when the Storyguide says "it doesn't matter what kind of Trauma; you choose", that means it could go either way. So whatever your reasons, you get to decide.

    Does that help?
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    Corral

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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by Corral on Wed 18 Feb 2009 - 20:12

    Erm... not really...

    So you're supposed to be trying to evenly distribute it? But only if you want to? I mean, the two things [Editor's note: psychological / emotional trauma] seem basically the same to me. If it's OK if I'm choosing based on what I *want* to take, then maybe I should just accept that and get on with it. But if I'm supposed to be choosing based on what I *should* take, I'd rather not have to decide, because it's hard to ignore what I *want*. Also, I really have trouble seeing what the difference between the two is. I'd rather roll a die or have you decide.

    Has everyone else just been picking the one they want to take the Trauma in?


    Last edited by Malicia on Wed 18 Feb 2009 - 20:16; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : So if you don't put a note here, it doesn't mention that you editted.)
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by cenobyte on Wed 18 Feb 2009 - 20:20

    I don't know. Sometimes people tell me their reasons; sometimes they don't.

    What I would LIKE for folks to do is to choose to take the Trauma in the area in which it makes most sense for their *character* to take it - if it makes more sense that watching a baby get used as a tennis ball during Keth's Intramural activities would give you Emotional Trauma ("OH, THE HUMANITY!!"), then I'd say you should choose Emotional. If it bothers you deep down inside ("My mother used to do that to me...twitch...twitch"), maybe you should take psychological Trauma.

    I'd LIKE for folks to make that decision based on roleplaying and which area seems to make the most sense *for your character*. But if you would rather choose to take Trauma in an area in which you have the least amount of Trauma, that's your choice. I'm certainly not going to dock you Zeal for it or tell you that what you've chosen is wrong. If you are able to make a case for where you've decided to take the Trauma, I won't criticise it.

    So, to summarize: I'd LIKE to believe that you allocate your E/Psych trauma according to how what caused the trauma would affect your character. But if you're more concerned with being able to spread the Trauma out more evenly, go ahead. It's not meta-gaming; it's taking advantage of a certain leeway in the rules that expressly permit you doing it.
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    Corral

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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by Corral on Wed 18 Feb 2009 - 20:26

    Well, or intentionally not spreading it out, for your own advantage and/or role-playing interest.

    Also, when I asked how everyone else was doing it, I was mainly asking everyone else... Wink
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    Keth
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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by Keth on Wed 18 Feb 2009 - 20:50

    For Keth... who may or not use babies as tennis balls..

    'Almost' all of the trauma he has taken has been in one area. Fuck balance. In my mind they this type of trauma hits him easier then the other does. And the situations he gets in, based on his backstory, are extremely difficult for him to handle. And if the poor guy cant handle it... well thats his damned problem aint it Wink

    Basically I toss the trauma where ever it seems most appropriate for the poor guy based on role playing.. *shrug* It'll kill him faster then a sword will at this rate.

    So.. Yeah I pick the area I want to take trauma in, and some twisted part of me wants to torment the poor guy and make this as interesting as I can before he finally truely* flips out.


    Last edited by Keth on Wed 18 Feb 2009 - 20:52; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : edit:: truely*)
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    Eliel

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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by Eliel on Wed 18 Feb 2009 - 21:02

    I have typically played characters who are stronger in one than the other. Because of that, I've worked under the assumption that that is where they draw there strength from. Admitedly it's kind of an IC excuse for an OOC mechanic choice. What I mean is that my character Gapan had 3+2 emotional wounds but only 1+1 pysch wounds. When faced with traumatic situations he dealt with it using the depth of his soul not the strength of his willpower. OOC it was better for me to cross off emo wounds but IC it made more sense as well.

    I think the same holds true imbalanced the other way or even with balanced characters for that matter. It makes sense for characters to draw their strength from wherever they still have the energy to draw it from.

    Marius
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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by Marius on Thu 19 Feb 2009 - 18:26

    I agree with Dave, mostly, but I also find that sometimes it doesn't make sense to work things that way. When there isn't a particular category that goes "Wow, that's where Marius is being hurt", I go with balancing it out for the least effect, because it makes sense that Marius tries to cope with things by balancing his conscious motivations and his unconscious reactions. But sometimes it feels right to get hit in the more severe area.

    Also, I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with metagaming, in the sense of making decisions based on what's more advantageous in the rules or for story concerns, even if your character doesn't understand or have the same view on those concerns. If the goal is to make the game more fun, then anything that increases your fun without diminishing others' should be fine.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by cenobyte on Thu 19 Feb 2009 - 18:31

    Yeah, I wouldn't consider an informed decision on where to allocate Trauma to be 'Metagaming'. I would consider not marking Trauma down at all to be Meta-gaming (or, in other words, cheating).
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    Gabe
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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by Gabe on Thu 19 Feb 2009 - 22:01

    I always look at how it is affecting my character. If it's something that hurts him for gut wrenching or inarticulable reasons then I mark off emotional trauma. If the trauma is the character trying to justify something or if something happens that he just can't understand then I mark off psychological. Well, it's a bit more complicated than that but that's where I start. Trauma that hearkens back to memory could go either way.

    I don't think that I've seen anything that actually describes the
    difference between the two so it leaves it to interpretation as to
    what trauma goes where. I don't see any reason why one couldn't think of them together as non-physical trauma and distribute the trauma inflicted on the character as one sees fit. It doesn't work for me but that doesn't make it either wrong or less valid.

    Sometimes one also has to go for whatever makes for the best story. If it is dramatically appropriate to have a breakdown then go for it.


    Last edited by Gabe on Thu 19 Feb 2009 - 22:03; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : I really dislike those blasted yellow smiley faces interfering with my black and white text.)
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    Corral

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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by Corral on Fri 20 Feb 2009 - 11:25

    I've made my decision what I'm doing this time 'round, and this should help for next time as well. I appreciate hearing other people's opinions.

    Although I have to disagree with you Jill, on a point of definition. I'm pretty sure meta-gaming isn't the same as cheating. Meta-gaming as I've always understood it is making decisions out of character (such as, this will be more fun if I do this), or sometimes using out of character information (such as, I know that this guy has a gun, even if my character didn't see it) which overlaps with cheating. By my definition, an "informed decison" is meta-gaming but not necessarily cheating. Not marking down trauma at all is cheating, but not meta-gaming. I tend to try to avoid meta-gaming, but it's not always bad.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by cenobyte on Fri 20 Feb 2009 - 18:51

    Damn.
    I had something prepared to post, and then I went and closed up the computer.

    Stupid jill.

    The gist of it was, that's not how I understand the term "Meta-gaming"; using OOC knowledge to embetter your character within the rules is not meta-gaming. It's making informed decisions about your character sheet. Using OOC knowledge you have no way of realistically knowing IC against another character or to embetter your chances of 'winning', I consider "Meta-gaming", and it is extremely distasteful to me.

    Carry on.
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    Eliel

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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by Eliel on Fri 20 Feb 2009 - 19:08

    Purely jumping in on the semantics debate, I also don't see this situation as meta-gamin, but for different reasons than Jill. I have always defined metagaming basically as basing IC decisions on OOC knowledge. The decision as to where trauma goes is ultimately an OOC decision (it's not like character's are sitting around going, "man, when I killed that guy does it hurt my heart or my head?"), so by definition it's not metagaming.

    I also don't think metagaming by it's strictest definition is always bad. Most characters' IC decision to come live in the city where the game is set is technically an IC decision based on OOC knowledge. In fact, going back to a controversial thread from last month, every time a character changes the way they speak because of an OOC consequence of getting less xp for roleplaying "wrong", that is also metagaming. I would argue however, since it is at the guide's urging, it is not "cheating" even though it is metagaming.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by cenobyte on Fri 20 Feb 2009 - 19:11

    Dave, that's exactly what I was trying to say - that Metagaming is doing IC stuff on OOC knowledge.
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    Adam Nemo

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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by Adam Nemo on Mon 2 Mar 2009 - 15:49

    Damnit, I was tricked by the title of this thread!! I was hoping for a rant by Jill on the difference between teenagers moping about and actual trauma.
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    cenobyte
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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by cenobyte on Mon 2 Mar 2009 - 16:02

    Every time I see this title, so am I.

    I will call that rant "Emo: Trauma or Entertainment?"
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    Corral

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    Re: Psych vs Emo Trauma

    Post by Corral on Mon 2 Mar 2009 - 16:29

    Psych! It's not the emo you think.

    Hehe.

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