Zeal and Devotion, Devotion and Zeal

This is a Providence house rule: You may spend Zeal to create Affections, including Domus, Chosen Weapons, and people, rather than spending Devotion to do so.

This requires that you permanently spend Zeal, either to give your Chosen Weapons extra OMs or DMs; to create a Domus; or to create a person-Affection. You must also have sufficient levels in Hallow, of course, to support your Affections (check the Hallow Technique write-up for Affection maximums).

You can also spend Zeal, rather than Devotion, to get an Inspiration to your Prowess for a challenge. Remember, this is a *permanent* expenditure and it doesn't 'come back'.

This was a functional application of Zeal previously, and it's one that I like. It will not appear in the final book, but I've spoken to Trent about using it as a house rule.

To clarify, in our game it will run as it is written in the books we bought? However the final books will be different?

Wow, how did I miss this thread until today?

Jill, to my way of reading, your first and second paragraphs contradict one another. The first paragraph says that you "may spend zeal... rather than spending devotion". Yet the second paragraph says "This requires that you permanently spend Zeal". Were you trying to say, "If you choose to spend Zeal instead of Devotion then the Zeal expenditure is permanent"?

If I ignore the second paragraph and concentrate on the first and third then it reads that you are adding uses for Zeal without taking away uses of Devotion.

I totally don't even remember making this post, but I suspect (knowing myself, as I often do) I was trying to say: if you have Zeal left over at character creation which you don't know what to do with, you may create a Permanent Affection by spending Zeal.

I *think* what I was getting at was that if you have no Devotion, you can spend Zeal instead. I think. Let me cogitate further and try to remember what prompted this post.

And yes, that is what I was trying to say.

Okay. I went back over my notes (yes, I do keep notes on occasion).

In the final book, there will not be an option to spend a point of Zeal (the expenditure being permanent) to create Affections. It will be that to create an Affection, you must spend Devotion, and to *invest* in an Affection, you must spend Zeal. I was clarifying that in Providence, I will still allow the permanent expenditure of Zeal to be used in lieu of using a point of Devotion to create Affections.

So if I understand it correctly the Avarice Pre-eminence only works on affections that have not had zeal spent into them. If affections can't be created without devotion spent on them, what does this pre-eminence actually do?

Are you asking me whether the Avarice Preeminence will work on affections whether they've been created using Zeal or Devotion?

If you have used Zeal in place of Devotion to *create* an Affection, the Avarice Preeminence will function as normal. In the final edition of the book, the Avarice Preeminence will function as normal. I believe the *spirit* of the Preeminence is to say that you cannot use it to affect Affections which have had Zeal applied to strengthen them. (So, you could not use it on a 1 - 3 point Domus, a strengthened Chosen Weapon, or a human Affection imbued with Zeal.)

Yes?

I have a completely different question, Jill.

If I want to make a Thug my Affection, since in Real Game Life that represents 3 people, does that take 3 of my total (Devotion * Hallow)?

1) I'm assuming you mean make a Permanent Thug an Affection?
2) Yes, I'd say so. That's why the resource is "Thugs" and not "Thug"?

1. Yes.
2. Ok.