Techniques - note

This is just a teeny tiny little FYI:

IC, Fallen do not refer to their Techniques by name. There is actually a game-setting reason for this which will be covered in the Storyguide book. It is noted more than once in the Players Rulebook that the names of the miraculous powers Fallen have are OOC terms only and should never be used in-game.

F'rinstance, Rada wouldn't walk into a meeting and say: "First I will use Smite to defeat the Angels, and then I will use Hallow to desecrate them."

He might say, "I have certain gifts that permit me great advantages in battle, and I have learned the way to desecrate Angels, and to banish them forever."

Sophiel wouldn't say "I will use Confession on you to release you from your pain."

She might say: "Do you feel the need to confess to me? It can help alieviate your suffering."

Arc's comment: "I know you with the True Voice" would be nonsensical.

But if Arc said: "I recognise the harmony with which your soul resonates within the Symphony", that would make sense to everyone.

Also, for that reason, many Fallen simply don't know what the other Techniques are or how they function.

I mention this so you can incorporate it into your roleplaying.

Ummm... people tend to label things. It's part of what we do. If they don't use the names as they appear in the book, wouldn't Fallen come up with other names so that their brethren would know what they are talking about? Or is there a supernatural reason preventing them from coming up with other names as well(the aforementioned "game-setting reason")?

I mean, if Fallen couldn't use the word "Brimstone", I would think over the thousands of years of existance they would come up with a different term to reference when making battle plans for example.

A few are easy to explain, like a fortitudes endure. I mean ok, they are really tough. No big deal there.

Another example of a difficult one to explain not having a 'name' for might be a Justice's Jugement. Pretty straightforward there.

Maybe, i might be compeltely off base here.

But we do recognize all things by their named virtue and vice, correct? I would see Keth as an embodiment of Fortitude or Becca as an embodiment of Justice, and know them by that name, or an action that resonates in the Symphony as aspected by Lust or Gluttony.

As for naming the techniques in character, I'd have to agree, since they are standardized, especially by the ease or difficulty that one receives the powers based on their Embodiment, it is hard to imagine that there aren't actual in character references for them. This is also because any techniques show as part as a person's embodiment in the Symphony. Although the zeal of a Faith may not always culminate into a rain of fire, I'm sure that it is commonly enough associated with strong enough Faith to have warranted a special moniker.

For example, Ravage has a fairly significant in-game difference of one's potential, and although mortals don't see it, it is a supra-Fallen capacity for speed, damage and other such things so they would have likely warned youngsters away from the "Beserking fury of the Wrath." That said, why aren't there common monikers listed in the book for what these might be referenced as?

Yes, the Embodiments are known IC.

While Techniques do resonate in the Symphony with the Embodiment of their origin, I have no idea why there aren't in-game monikers for the Techniques. I suspect the onus is placed on the players to be descriptive...connotational rather than denotational?

Ok I will give you that one... but still, something like the justice Judgement would probably be referred to as such. I can easily see how they wouldnt have specific names like that. But some of them just fit too well to change them without trying very hard. In my mind...

But in favour of what you said. there is no way I would call valor at moderate (basically a fortitude thing that locks someone out of combat making them hit the fort instead). I might say it that way ooc to explain what I am actually doing but IC, assuming he had to describe it. "I hold the line, to get to them you have to beat through me." or something like that...

edit:: then again the justice thing could be said as "I will judge you" or... something else. My brain is gone right now. If it comes beack i might try another post to rectify my recent bout of stupid.

I guess part of my conundrum is if Fallen use different names for what they call their abilities, why doesn't the book just use those names instead of the ones that Fallen don't use. If Fallen don't refer to "True Voice" as "True Voice" but instead, call it "Symphony Listening", wouldn't it be easier for players if the rulebook just called it "Symphony Listening" too?

In the other direction if they aren't IC terms anyways, why not replace some of the obscure ones like approbation with simpler terms like approval or endorsement?

I know in the old Vampire days, it often broke the mood of the game when someone would say, "I have 3 levels of X", or "my status is 5". However Trent seems to have gone to a lot of trouble to come up with interesting and compelling terms that actually make sense on an in-character level.

Those are all good questions.

I think the idea is that in the book, the Techniques are listed the way they are to make it easier to refer to them OOC. The intent of the game, though, is that they are not terms you use IC.

In Keth's example of Justice using Judgement, he makes a really good point. I might just say "I have the ability to judge you", or "I am the bearer of God's judgement" or something to that effect.

Trent has gone to a lot of trouble to come up with cool names for the miraculous powers Celestial beings have. That's flavour text for the game (rather than saying 'Gluttony Body Technique', I suppose). The reason it's not called "Symphony Listening" is that "Symphony Listening" sounds kind of lame.

It's an attempt to encourage more creativity in players' roleplaying, rather than relying on the old fallback (as you said, Dave, "I have 3 levels of X"). In fact, if a character says "I have Pure Beguile", that sounds really silly, if you take it from an IC point of view. That'd be like the guy who comes up to you in the street and says "I have seven levels of Awesome" (okay, chances are good that might just be Arc's player...but still...you see where I'm going with this?) or "my intelligence is 119". You just don't talk like that.

I can't imagine Batman and Superman sitting around inside Justice League Headquarters telling each other things like "Hey, Superman. Did you know I have Moderate Invisibility in partial cover?"
"That's nothing. If we're ever attacked by an entire army made of sentient water, I can boil the ENTIRE THING with *my* Moderate Laser Vision!"
"Yeah? I wonder if I can learn that."
"Nah. You have to be Super."


Okay. I guess I *can* imagine it...

The flip-side to your analogy would be two hitmen sitting around saying,

"hey check out my new sharpened steel stabbing device". "Nice, I'm not a big fan of implements used for the act of stabbing, I much prefer my good ole' weapon consisting of a metal tube, with mechanical attachments, from which projectiles are shot by the force of an explosive". "Hunh, I sure do wish we had terms for these things."

I know I'm being a little silly here, but I really get the impression techiniques are an overt thing, not just part of who someone is (like awesomeness or intelligence). My point is that things get names. It's how we identify them. In fact, to use your example, people do use the term "laser vision" when talking about superman's "ability to create heating beams of light that come from his eyes".

I think that it is more fun to explain things without using game terms as is. It makes it more fun to roleplay your answers when asked your capabilities, for instance when ever someone asked jade what she was capable of i really enjoyed saying that: I dunno *shrug* I go in and get what I want, *shrug*, heck even out of character i can't remeber what the powers name is i just call it mind rape, more fun in my mind. ^_^

Dude, that discussion between two hitmen would make the BEST. MOVIE. EVAR.

also i agree with Jill that would be a VERY awsome movie.

I always cringe a bit when I use a 'game term' IC. I feel it's a bit of an insult to my role-playing ability (not that I think I'm gawds gift to role-playing) and to the intelligence of my gaming group. Conjugating the game-name is a really clear way to convey what you intend for your target audience to understand. My benchmark is 'if it sounds corny, don't use it'. It's not that difficult to say 'come now, confessing your sins will ease your burden' or 'he rained fire and brimstone on the demon'. I think maybe the point is as players we're able to use a version of the name while discussing things IC ... in order to refer to the actual name we have to bastardize it a bit? (Really, Jordan would not walk up to Gabe and say 'I see your feeling down ... want me to use Confession on you to see if you can Rehabilitate some of your Trauma?)

Tangential Rant ~ The fact the game system goes out of the way to make a point that characters do not 'name' their innate abilities while referring to them is one of the few contentions I have with the versions of the rules I've read ... that being the system seems a bit 'preachy' about how players are supposed to play their characters. This clearly isn't the time or place to open that can or worms, but it's something I've brought up with the editor and thought it was salient to mention since the topic was introduced.

Oh, and "people" might refer to Superman's laser vision, but I bet *he* doesn't. And I bet his family would be horribly embarassed if he did.

Damn. I'm getting silly now.

The point *is*, even in White Wolf games, I always thought it was incredibly (to be politically incorrect) retarded to use game terms to describe your abilities. Hearing someone say "I have celerity" IC just made me roll my eyes. The fact that the KC book *actually says* "these terms are for OOC reference only; actual characters will never use the names of their Techniques IC" is one of the things I like about it.

I think part of the reason some of the stuff in the book comes off as 'preachy' is because it's a LARP that is attempting to be far more abstract and dramatic than other LARPs. It seems to me to concentrate more on acting and drama than on mechanics and rules.

Arc's player has WAY more than seven levels of Awesome.

Using White Wolf as an example is always dangerous becasue of all the baggage it entails, but since it's come up anyways, this conversation reminded me of one of my favorite RBN stories. A brand player new to the game as well as the system was playing a Tremere who specialized in Auspex. A Wraith had been discovered at the gathering and the character spend much of his night following it and studying it. At the end of the night characters were discussing what they new and this new player said, "this ghost seems to be fettered to this place somehow". About a dozen people dropped out of character and started demanding how much "wraith lore" he had that enabled him to know that term. This new player shrunk back into his seat until the friend who brought him to the game spoke up and told everyone that this new player had no idea what they were talking about. What had happened was the new player wasn't using the word "FETTER", he was using a word that exists in the language that accurately described a phenomenom that he saw.

I guess my point is that words exist for a reason. Jargon (which technique names would definately be) also exists for a reason. When talking to another canoe instructor, I would not feel silly in the slightest referring to having my "flatwater A-D and my Lakewater 1&2, but not my moving water 1 yet". I would actually feel sillier if I purposefully avoided these terms and instead described what I could do in a canoe (that sounded waaay dirtier than I intended, but now it's too funny to erase).

My point is that there would be a term for things. The codex is an in character document, so we know that the term "techniques" is used IC. This means that Fallen are aware of them as powers unto themselves, not just "he's really fast".

I agree that it hurts the feel of the game saying, "since I have 2 levels of inquisition, so I learned 2 things about him". At the same time a character asking, "was that information gained through the means of listening to the True Voice or through your powers of Inquisition?" seems like a logical statement. More to the point, if Fallen don't use the words Inquisition or True Voice, I can't see them not comming up with a different set of jargon that they use so they could easily ask that question without resorting to descriptions.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one, Dave. Yes, there are names for things. But things have *multiple* names. Although people *do* occasionally go around saying "I have an IQ of 119" it's a rare example. Although people *do* say, "I've got my Lakewater 1&2," that's a class, not an ability. You're saying you've taken those classes.

What people do say is, "I can run really fast" or "I once one a high-jump competition" or "I can climb a chain-link fence without aid." It's not a big deal if you happen to use the same term as in the book, I would think ("Feel my judgement!" or "Please confess your sins") but it's not known as The One and Only Term for That. I can also say, "I'm the best at Track," or "I could handle that fence like a spider!" That's possibly getting a bit creative, but all I'm saying is, there are synonyms for things, and although everybody knows what running is, it isn't *always* called that. I suspect it's the same for this game. Just because it's called Confession doesn't mean you can't use the word confess. Just don't say it with a capital.

Yes, the word "Techniques" may be used, but not the names for them. And I think if someone says "My abilities of judgement", that's much different from saying "I have Judgement"....actually, I'm trying to make the same point Laura is. In fact, I was going to say exactly the same thing she said in her last sentence, so, um.

Carry on.

And someday, I might ask Dave to speak Canoe to me...mmmmm....

My point in bringing up canoeing was to point out that in jargon terms tend to become much more specific than in daily language. Typically, the more narrow the group that uses the jargon, the more specific the terminology. Since Jill likes it when I talk canoe I'll stick with the canoeing analogy. There are specific names for specific strokes. I could say, "I used a cross-bow-draw to avoid the rock" or "insead of a J-stroke I had to use a superior stroke because of the rough water".

Even looking at the examples that have been given on "running fast" or "intelligent", even these traits become quantified and named in the specialized communities that use them. In daily speech people wouldn't say, "I have a 143 IQ", but at a Mensa meeting they would. In football circles someone saying that they "run a four four forty" would be far more common than saying a player was "fast, no I mean really fast".

So I guess I would agree that a newly reckoned Fallen wouldn't use a universal term. Kings and elder characters however, expecially characters who are scholars or tacticians, would have developed a jargon to define specific capabilities of their soldiers.

Even for game feel, I find it just as mood-breaking when a character dances and weaves trying to describe something avoiding a word just because it's written in a book. It makes the character sound unnecesarily evasive.

In my original statement I said this was all assuming there was no supernatural force preventing them from doing so. If the reason for not using technique names is supernaturally enforced like the no travelling or no technology elements that is a different story.

First, let me just say: "oooooohhhhh". Let's talk Canoe over drinks some night.



Second, there isn't really a supernatural force *preventing* you from using jargon for Techniques, but there is a reason why, *particularly* Mature characters and ...um... Remnants would not say things like "Ah yes. Keth is a fine student of Appropriation". I mean, other than the fact that he currently is not. Learning Appropriation.

Jargon is one thing, and I strongly, *strongly* encourage you to consider the abilities of Celestial critters granted by their miraculous powers to be 'lower case' terms. So, rather than saying something like "I Hallowed that door. I Hallowed it good", you might say, "I've weakened the door" or, more to the point, rather than "Ambrose is clearly under the effects of Slumber", perhaps "someone with the ability to cause waking dreams...a kind of permanent state of slumber...has affected Ambrose, the poor git."

Also, I may have missed the entire point of your comment, Dave, because I was so distracted by the thought of a J-stroke.

If you were distracted by my J-stroke, you should see my C-stroke. Back in the day, I could C-stroke for hours while soloing.

Now that you're distracted, I will say that the second slumber example seemed far more artificial than the first.

To echo (or possibly completely misinterpret) Mike's point, sometimes the game material is so emphatic (preachy) about players not doing all the things that the game designer didn't like about badly played Vampire LARPS, that it over directs players on how to play their character. In effect causing the pendulum to swing far enough the other way that it causes the same problem it's trying to prevent.

I can see specific examples of when and where it seems fine to use technical jargon IC. I agree with Dave, I don't see why it's so wrong to say "be sure to Hallow when we get to the new domus". Everyone will understand and it sounds a whole lot better than saying, "be sure to use your celestial ability to preternatural anchor yourself to the new house in case you suffer severe injury". But that's just me. IC we could strike a committee to name our abilities...

Oh God.
Please, no decisions by committee.


Dave, I kind of missed everything after 'C-stroke for hours'.

Hmmm... I want to test something. Hey Jill, when in front I'm almost always using the cruising stroke but occasionally I use the pitch stroke. When I'm in the rear, I usually use a J-stroke, but (can I have 20 extra zeal for my new character?) sometimes instead I use an Indian stroke when it's windy. How does that sound?

I'm sorry, did you say something about your character?