Splitting the Room

Oooh. That brings me to another question/idea regarding September's game, which I probably ought to open up a new topic for, but...

...how would you feel about playing in Lumsden?

I've always found the IC room rather smallish for my own comfort. That said, I'm used to bigger sites for gaming, and to be fair, I'm also used to bigger groups. Now that we're getting more players, I'm a little worried that I might tend towards claustrophobia if everyone is packed into that one room all night long. I'm with whoever it was that said that they don't want to see the hallway/ramp area made into a strictly OOC area. I really think that we need a bit more space than the one classroom offers.

Also, I think that gaming in Lumsden would totally cock.

Kay, again, I'm not saying everyone has to stay in the same room all the time. The problem comes in when *half the game leaves* and stays gone for two hours. In a four hour game.

I think that is when it would be worthwhile to quietly pester the people into returning as what they are doing is in effect having a side scene at a game.

So, what you're saying is that i should get an electrified cattle prod? Or, preferably, a Taser?

Excellent!

You all heard it! You're all witnesses! John said I could...SHOULD, in fact, have an electrified cattle prod, or, preferably, a taser! You're all witnesses!

I mean, I *already* liked this suggestion best, but then when you add an electrified cattle prod, or, preferably, a taser...well...that just sweetens the deal! I'm so EXCITED!

Haha. Well I just have a couple of concerns to bring up against a couple of points brought up. I know that I will be soon finding difficulty if I am corralled by tazer every time I am having a private conversation with say, my White King and possibly the rest of the Court, as I have no other opportunity to have those conversations in person or even get there extra early to have a side scene as I'm from out of town.

Private conversations need to happen. There isn't any doubt of that. It's just where they can take place. Now if the partition idea makes people cringe, even though I still think having maybe one small sectioned portion off would be advantageous, I think that arranging the seating in the room becomes a bit more critical. Think of fancy restaurants. There are a lot of people crammed in to a small space and private conversation happens a plenty. Low lighting, music, and available seating for smaller groups could help us get closer to that sort of atmosphere. There should be a no turning off the music rule as it seems like every one here is in agreement that it is a good thing.

In short - atmosphere will make people feel like lingering. Some times when I enter the main room the one big conversation seems to be a bit stiff or something I don't feel like getting in on, so I try to interact with others, but that big conversation in the middle of the couches sort of takes over the entire room's focus and people get bored. Breaking off seating and tables so little conversations can happen would be a Good Thing.

Yes! Alan made this point as well.
I have Thoughts in my Head about How To Do This Better.

I think More Seating (rather than less), More Mood, and More Fans will all help.

Actually, a friend of mine who's an electrical engineer made a taser for me (remember, Wade?). But then he wouldn't let me use it because it would have killed Quinn.

"But Jill," you say, "Tasers don't kill Quinn! PEOPLE kill Quinn!"

Y'see, had I been able to get my hands on it, I'd have used it on Quinn. And I would now be running this game from Prison. Which, admittedly, would be a *little* cool...

Don't tase me, Bro!

Oh, I forgot to answer about Lumsden. My answer is summed up by a big 'FUCK YES'.

Love wrote:Haha. Well I just have a couple of concerns to bring up against a couple of points brought up. I know that I will be soon finding difficulty if I am corralled by tazer every time I am having a private conversation with say, my White King and possibly the rest of the Court, as I have no other opportunity to have those conversations in person or even get there extra early to have a side scene as I'm from out of town.

Private conversations need to happen. There isn't any doubt of that. It's just where they can take place. Now if the partition idea makes people cringe, even though I still think having maybe one small sectioned portion off would be advantageous, I think that arranging the seating in the room becomes a bit more critical. Think of fancy restaurants. There are a lot of people crammed in to a small space and private conversation happens a plenty. Low lighting, music, and available seating for smaller groups could help us get closer to that sort of atmosphere. There should be a no turning off the music rule as it seems like every one here is in agreement that it is a good thing.

I think a lot of it just comes down to moderation. Yes private chats for the courts and also for any other group for that matter are a a good thing. when it takes an hour for them to be fully finished then I think it is a bad thing. Separating the room up doesn't really help either way in this. If groups meet in the corner of the class room and say "piss off" to the other characters then that works just the same as being in the hallway or 1 mile away. Primogen Council syndrome is one of the worst things that can happen to a game. Sure the council has fun because they are discussing stuff but everyone else who is not a full political player ends up bored often when it happens. I don't think Jill should be cracking a whip (unless she wants to just for fun) every time a group walks out the door but if they are wandering away from the game for an extended period of time then I don't have a problem being reminded that the other people are bored inside because the majority is outside.

I'm just thinking that you can't hit the issue with a bat and say 'No Side Scenes' or that a private conversation has to have a time limit. There should be an alternative fix for this instead of firmer herding of players.

Primogen Council syndrome hurting a game is only true if the designation demands as referent that the council not delegate story to the rest of the game. When it does its job as delegator of story, fundamentally making those they delegate to beholden to plot and further interaction with an in game penalty if they fail to obey, it isn't a bad thing. In my oh so humble opinion it is one of the best things for a game. You guys would be so lucky if I had the energy to sort out all the crap that goes on and force you to get involved. But you are unlucky because I prefer to rest on my laurels and simply make wise ass remarks while exuding awesome.

Okay, you also read *that* right? John said I *also* get a whip!

Electric cattle prod, or, preferably, taser, in one hand and whip in the other! "Gently prod", indeed.

Johnathan, you're using an awful lot of really big words that make my eyebrows ache a lot. The bottom line is that if folks only get to play once a month, they don't like to feel they have to wait around for plot to arrive. Most of them don't; most of them create their own plot and have their own conversations, but that doesn't mean they feel included in the stories. And that, I think, is my greatest concern - that not everyone realises that each of them is important, and integral, to the story we are telling. And it's much, much easier to include people if half the game isn't gone for half the game.

Again, I'm not asking you to *stop* having IC discussions in places other than the main room. What I *am* asking is that, as much as possible, you try to have your meetings in the main room. Please? And that if you *must* leave the room for an IC discussion (and for the love of God, please don't have OOC discussions in the main gaming room (and if you do need to be OOC, Shyla, I'm looking at you, please use the Moose Horns, not the little crossed fingers thing...tsk, tsk, tsk))...um...where was I? Oh yeah. If you *must* leave the room for IC discussions, please just have a look around and see how many other people are gone and see if you can't just have that discussion in a quiet corner.

And if you're one of the folks having a discussion outside or on the ramp or wherever, please consider that the rest of the game is desperately waiting for you to come back. Because you're awesome, and they miss you! Come back soon!

You know what i need? I need a BULLHORN. With one of those sirens. Or maybe just my kazoo. Or my zils! I'll ding the little effers whenever someone's been outside too long! And then you'll all salute me, and we'll start marching, and...and...um. Too far? I've gone too far again...

I would love it if everyone had the energy to make their own plot, especially if it somehow involved others. My reference was specifically due to my experiences in Primogen Council syndrome since those often only dealt with storyteller driven plot...everyone else was too busy hiding their personal plots.

Pure Inner Silence masks diablerie streaks doesn't it?

Ah. In that case, carry on.
Since you all BROKE the plot *I* had.
pfff.

For the record, I hate being in on council meetings of any sort. I would prefer to be the one left behind to my own devices with the other plebs. That is to say, I want people to go away into their meetings. I would get caught doing stuff if they stuck around.

I do think it usually has less to do with room layout and more to do with motivations. If folks have strong reasons to have private conferences, they will. Having a closed set of decision makers(the Kings) mandates some private conversations - having Techniques that must be used with no one else around for them to function is another. More than that, there are frankly a lot of conversations in real life I can't easily have while around other people, never mind if I am a scheming and manipulating Fallen. It is pretty hard to seduce someone while talking in front of their boyfriend, or convince someone to betray their employer while in a meeting with the both of them. It can be done, but definitely not for amateurs.

(As a side note, in the previous SbN Mage chronicle, I tried to ingrain that one of the codes of the Council is they weren't allowed to exclude anyone from hearing their meetings, since they were supposed to be a delegated decision making body instead of a true government, so all the Awakened had a right to hear the deliberations. In practice, this just ended up that a often how the politics would work out was arranged away from the game, and just presented as a done deal at the game after a show vote. It wasn't a bad idea, just didn't work in execution.)

As for Primogen Council Syndrome - it exists, it sucks, but isn't entirely the fault of the Primogen Council types always, either. People need to get their own plots, even important plots, and not be eager to hand them off to authority figures. If there are plenty of disputes, problems, and dilemmas where people are like "The Kings can keep their grubby hands off - this isn't a Codex issue, this involves me, and I'm not letting them tell me how we're going to hash this out!" then it doesn't matter if position holders are cloistered, because there'll still be drama and decisions being made by everyone else. The issue comes in when everyone tries to be a good boy or girl and hand every problem up the chain of command, and just wait for orders. Don't be a good boy or girl. I think in an active KC game, the vast majority of plots should bypass the Kings entirely - that requires both Kings to say "Well, it doesn't touch upon the War or the Codex, so we won't issue a mandate no matter our personal feelings" and other players to say "This isn't an issue for the Courts or the Codex. This is personal, and damn anyone who tries to make it a matter for lawyers!"

All easier said than done, of course. And I don't know how much of that this game has been prone to already or not, since I haven't played much. But such are my observations from other games.

Also: WYSIWYG is good. IC layout should match OOC layout. Prevents folks from doing the cock-blocking "We're not actually having this discussion here" behaviour.


Also #2: People do what they are rewarded for doing, and avoid what they are discouraged from doing. Has this game had any "Hidden traitors" plots folks got stung by? I know even a relatively open game can go to having all important discussions behind closed doors if there is even one incident of folks getting burned by someone at a gathering hearing something they shouldn't and then betraying the PCs.

Also #3: I'd still rather have folks wander away to talk than to do the "We don't discuss important matters here at Elysium. Wait til another time and place for all discussions of import, you never know who may be listening" thing which was so common at one point.

Also #4: Lumsden is cool.

Also #5: Yes, I remember the taser. I believe the phrase "able to spot-weld pennies!" was used. I prefer the non-incarcerated version of you please, Jill.

Also #6: I write really rambling posts sometimes.

Also #7: Boo cock-blocking!

Love wrote:Also #7: Boo cock-blocking!

That may have to go in my sig file or something.